If you take the transition as one chunk of time, rather than chopping it up into chapters, I did a lot of work on personnelwe all did a lot of work on policy development, what was the economic policy going to be, and getting right down to very specific potential decisions. I remember the very stirring tableau as you may remember, the Clintons and the Gores came out onto this beautifully lit portico and there were, it seemed, thousands of people on the street in front of them. Bentsen advised him to take it. By the end of the year it had become a massive issue. First of all, the actual role of the Deputy Secretary as defined in the Treasury mission statement is to do what the Secretary of the Treasury asks him to. You say he didnt inspire fierce loyalty amongst a lot of his subordinates, but interestingly, I think a lot of the senior Cabinet members lasted a long time, I mean, they stayed for muchDonna Shalala was Secretary for eight years, Rubin was in for a long time, given the fact that his family didnt move to Washington. You may not have been conscious of it. I guess we have to just win then. I just know from prior experience that thats the way to do it. I knew what the ATF was, but not much more than that. I suppose the problem that the administration confronted was that it was far from being budget-neutral. I was asked a second time to do it on the healthcare. Youre an exception to this. Well, I was thinking of both actually, but in the bill. Its early 94 and the process on the healthcare initiative begins. Youve had Chiefs of Staff, Don Regan comes to mind, who see themselves as all-powerful and go too far to one end of the spectrum, and youve had others like Mack, who are too deferential and too averse to confrontation and go too far in the other direction. I think thats a very important point because it turned out to be an awfully successful piece of legislation and not a single Republican voted for it. Well, not really. So, looking back on it, the nature and the history of those three men had a lot to do with the eventual outcome. It wasnt trade; trade was not a big issue in the campaign. I think Clinton was better served by virtue of Perots presence in the campaign than without it. Carter, whos a wonderful man, God knows, however is very rigid. We know youre extremely busy. What really happened was that the stimulus was entirely spending-side stimulus. Id served four years in the Carter Treasury but I hadnt had that much exposure in those years to the President. Having watched very carefully what Bob Carswell, who served for three plus years of the four Carter years as Deputy Secretary, did in that role, and that was actually rather different than my role. Clintons very first initiative was his stimulus program. Did you think it was a waste of time at that point? Bentsen tended to say very little at those meetings except at the end, when Clinton would turn to Bentsen and say, What would you do, Lloyd? Chrystia Freeland, Financial Times US managing editor, interviewed Roger Altman, co-CEO of Evercore Partners. WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Barack Obama on Tuesday interviewed investment banker Roger Altman, a former Treasury official, as a candidate to replace In the first two years of the Clinton administration, they had about four Prime Ministers, pretty hard to get anywhere in that circumstance. They talked all the time. As I say, it was sort of a double-barrel summit. Sure. Some of them I think were insincere, but many of them were sincere. She herself has expressed regret over them. Exactly. Were they talking about what you do with Senator X, with Congressman Y? A group of four of us were named at the same time: Bentsen, Rubin, [Leon] Panetta, and myself. In retrospect, a limited, very grudging change. There are many people in the administration who dont like the welfare reform that was ultimately signed, believed that Clinton ultimately turned centrist on the issue and anybody could have done that and once you did it as a Democratic President, you were going to have welfare reform. Oh yes, sure. Those are my exact words. Thats just exactly what I said. Mr. Altman returned to Washington in 1993 to serve as Deputy Secretary of the U.S. Treasury for two years. One, the recession of 91 and early or mid 92, the economy was performing poorly. I said to him, If I should resign, then thats what I want to do. Then the reality is, it seems to me, that most Presidencies, Im sorry, great Presidencies, are forged in crisis. The contrast between Chicago, which was in an uproar at the time, and Georgetown couldnt have been more vivid. Youre referring to the environmental and labor side issues. What was different about it was that it worked, because most of them had been somewhat dysfunctional. I dont know why we were the earliest on the list. So there was not any anxiety or uncertainty within the core group of people involved in economic policy making about how this might fit in or. Were you consulting with the President occasionally after you left Washington and came back to New York? I dont think Id ever met her, but we were serving on the same board together and we became acquainted and occasionally talked about getting together some way or other. A lot of the talk was about the public credit markets responding, not so much the Fed. Were there any big-picture elements that you wanted to put into the puzzle right now or should we just go ahead and break and we can pick up with some of the specifics on these things? So I spent a lot of time on healthcare. A lot of kids who went to Georgetown were interested in having a good time, and most people who went to Chicago were really serious about their academic pursuits and the world around them. He voted against it, we had a boom, he never paid a dimes worth of price for that. But its not too different from Clintons style, very personal, very, very personal. I think John Kennedys famous line about Jefferson applies because he had nine simultaneous careers, and the Presidency was only one. Ironically, Clintons style for those meetings and the style of the present President are not very different. But anyway, in retrospect it was a very bad idea. Ill give you an answer but Ill preface it by saying Im not sure my memory is quite right here. I believe, as I say, it was either the day of or the day after Gennifer Flowers had given her press conference. and I said, I just want to serve.Im not going to give you a speech about why I should be Secretary of the Treasury. I might have a point of view about what those ought to be based on certain inputs I was receiving directly from the Hill and we need to work more on this or that. I think its a combination of several things. They were taking, to some degree, a thousand-year view. Well, within about two weeks of the election, certainly by the end of November, the actual transition offices were established in Washington. Mexico was looking for the freedom for its trucks to cross the border and continue to deliver in the United States. We assembled Carter and Ford and George H. W. Bush, and various other luminaries, Jim Baker, [Henry] Kissinger and so forth, to project a bipartisan front on NAFTA and Clinton gave the speech of his life. So monetary policy has gone from being considerably more powerful than fiscal policy in 93, to being the only policy in town in 2003. The time for horse-trading was over. As has been, as I said, so widely chronicled, the focus was on the economy because the economy was sluggish, in a recessionary state. That was in July or June or something. He saw the opportunity, he seized it, went against the grain and, lets face it, presided over a period of unprecedented prosperity and balanced the budget for the first time in approximately 50 years. I remember sitting there, thinking to myself, This guy just did something that I could no more imagine myself capable of doing than I could jump off the Brooklyn Bridge. some of these were extemporaneous, he had no notes, but he was quite an impressive speaker, I thought. It wasnt going to be a war between the United States and the Soviet Union. No, the rest of those were really in the purview, in the ambit of Larry Summers. He should have taken it. We touched on this at a couple of points but never directly asked you whether you thought the President. Japan accepted a series of goals that we wanted them to accept, but the teeth, in terms of enforcement, werent there. Just promotes disunity and so forth. Hed been shot eight times. On changes in the bill, unless they were truly minor, those were deliberated at the highest level. It was just an evolution of the prior role. But there was the sense, based on conversationsI think you could go back and say that there were some discussions between Bentsen and Greenspan, Rubin and Greenspan, Clinton and Greenspan, although the sum total of those conversations probably took an hour. I think this had to be artfully crafted in order to get through. There are too many people in his own administration, at least at the moment, who think that all he finally did was succumb to the Republican position, and anybody who wore a D on his shirt and supported the Republican position could have brought along enough Ds to make the bill happen. Whenever the times got tough or after they left or whatever it was, I think a lot of people who left the Clinton administration lowered themselves by their own behavior in terms of lesser loyalty than they should have had. But that was really after the economic program passed. Well, you know that whole thing turned out to be quite an astonishing fiasco with the ultimate FBI [Federal Bureau of Investigation] raid and the immolation of 80 Branch Davidians. But from the outside, one of the notable departures of that administration, and I think it began very early, was the cordial deference paid toward the Federal Reserve Board. Well, it was also a surprise to many in the administration because the truth is, the fight over the economic plan took every ounce of energy that everyone had and attention didnt really turn to NAFTA until that was over, and that was over in August. It was a successful fundraiser. Is it okay if we move away from the crisis of getting the big things through to just the more mundane ways that the government ran while you were there? Theodore Roosevelts name comes up occasionally as somebody that even Clinton himself had at least a temporary fixation on when he was evidently considering his own legacy as some one who took a progressive era, being a kind of rough approximation to the. We still joke about that today. So heres a person who knew how to manage himself. I spoke in this wonderful old hall, in the legislative building, legislative chamber, it was great. Well, if you think about spending initiatives that you could take today that are politically imaginable, they amount to a hill of beans in a $10.7 trillion economy. So the Congress decided to hold hearings on all aspects of Whitewater and, as everybody remembers, everyone from Maggie Williams to Harold Ickes to everybody had to testify. I did too. And I dont have any different set of reactions than anyone else watching the thing at the time. It wasnt funny in the conventional sense, but it was just funny. He must have had enough of a political antenna to realize this was going to be a tough call in a Democratic constituency in Pennsylvania or Michigan. I dont include that on the list because the federal role in education is always exaggerated. I think Bush inspires greater loyalty than Clinton, just does. I started getting inundated with letters from Congress asking how the RTC intended to handle this, stirred up by this Republican campaign. It was the best political speech, with a couple of exceptions, Id ever heard, which prompted a wonderful comment from former President Bush, who then came to the microphone and said, Now I know why Im on the outside looking in. Its not as easy. Yes, to some degree. It used to be, I believe, that they were graded on grounds of competent scholarship and so forth. It wasnt difficult at all because Cuomo was a polarizing figure. We recommend you to check the complete I, and quite a few other people, had dinner with him, quite a few meaning 15 or so. If Im not mistaken, Paul Tsongas won New Hampshire? Those meetings were, at one level, rather riveting, but at another level they were disorganized. Because they thought, If we hold those hostages very long at all after this man becomes President, we may be nuclearized. You had been designated the chief operating officer of the RTC [Resolution Trust Corp.]? Can you tell us about that? There are extremes here. Why was that a federal regulatory issue? In the spring of 1991, I think it would have been May or June, we had the chance to have a talk here in New York, and I then talked to him by phone. Did you get the sense that this is true? Im a little too close to this, because Im not sure how history will view it. She may have had a lot of influence on it, but I didnt see her. We were all trotted out in Little Rock on the same day. At my sons school, on the floor where the history department is, each President gets a little tiny picture and about two lines. But it was quite obvious that wed lost the battle. Did you think that they took those claims seriously, or was this pure politics? I believe Stan Shuman was there. The arrangements, as far as the White House, how it passes operation, and the Treasury operationshould that be seen as well coordinated, or is it difficult to coordinate? Bentsen managed himself with extraordinary skill. I dont know whether his Presidency will be seen as one of the most important or transformative in American history. I wasnt there because I was an expert in tax policy. It was after all largely negotiated by his predecessors, and yet he took a big gamble on that one, too, and thats sort of a kick in the midsection to a lot of his Democratic supporters. The second was the evolution of the deficit estimates during that period. Theres also an institutional dimension to the atmosphere in Washington thats very important and distinguishes the current situation from the situation in which you governed, and that is the existence of an independent counsel. The basic point was Ill focus on it, Ill get it moving. Why? Kerrey made a quite dramatic speech, rather excoriating Clinton, urged Clinton to get back on the high road and so forth and then cast the vote and Gore cast the tie-breaking vote and thats how it happened. [laughter]. We met for six or seven hours in the Governors mansion there. Well, it can be revived at any time, the Congress can just vote to revive it. The President decided it, but Mack McLarty actually called me. Ill never forget that, he was a good guy, a real good old boy, I cant recall his name now, hes not in Congress any longer, but I arrived at the airport and he meets me and he says, Look, just get one thing straight, youre not going to say a word today about guns, nothing. He knew what was possible; he knew what wasnt possible. Now remember, Clinton had said he was going to cut the deficit in half. So, third, economic policy was number one. My view, theres no single answer to that at all, but if I were to list the elements of my response, the first one would be post-election. So it quickly became apparent that some elements of the plan were going to face heavy sledding. It struck outsiders as the administration never passed up an opportunity to say, This is the preserve of the Federal Reserve. You were both involved then in student government. Id have to do a little homework. I attended the little thing at Monticello when he was on his way to be inaugurated, the first time he stopped by in the bus. There were a lot of people who did take that candidacy very seriously though, right? That was a factor. Exactly. Actually I delivered mine to great jocular reaction, but then Gene Sperling stood up and he talked about the ten reasons why this was a good bill. I never heard of them. But then Senator [Daniel Patrick] Moynihan spoke to Kerrey late in the day and I thought that was, if not decisive, very influential. That process had been going on. Mrs. Bentsen responded. Youd suggested earlier that a National Economic Council wasnt anything that was a particularly major innovation. Speaking out of school? Altman donated $41,000 to the Biden Action Fund, a joint fundraising committee, in May, according to Federal Election Commission records. WebRobert Altman's House (former) Malibu, California (CA), US Like Tweet Share Pin The film director, known for making films that are highly naturalistic, but with a stylized I mean, I saw a lot of the two of them and I became quite friendly with Hillary, and by the time I left the administration was actually much more friendly with Hillary than I was with the President, even though ironically Id obviously known him first. He could have been all rhetorical about it. Somehow it came off successfully in Miami with all these heads of state and everybody was very happy with it. I cant think of anything you didnt ask me, or anything I didnt say that I would have liked to have said, so with that exception. Well, let me stop. It was a voluntary choice. Most of the budget directors thus far, Alice Rivlin, Leon Panetta, Jack Lewwe spent a day with Larry Summers, a number of the political people as well, speechwriters and so forth. Yes, but typically you wouldnt resort to that with relative stability in the exchange markets, and we did have relative stability. You asked me when the most important policy development occurred and I would say there are several answers to that but number one would be post election, not pre-election. But thats what Congress guys wanted. I mean, we had these discussions, we had these ways to measure progress and so forth, that sometimes alarmed economists in the United States because they seemed protectionist. Right around that time I was put in charge of the Treasury transition. I started doing a lot of the same thing Id done on the economic plan: radio shows, television stuff, running around the country. Of course Mack McLarty was there and all theif I can call them factionswere represented. I also think Clinton knew he was going to go up against some of his oldest allies, whether it was Marian Wright Edelman, whomever it was, in terms of welfare reform, and was prepared to do it, but wasnt really looking forward to it. Then there were other people who went down and the press was following all this. The key players turned out to be the so-called blue dog Democrats. I remember Allen going through that. No. I certainly have every reason to want him to. Well see whether it lasts or not, but I think Clinton changed the dynamic on worldwide attitudes toward trade opening, and turned trade from an obscure issue that few people in the country paid any attention to, into an important issue and an acceptance of the notion that lowering barriers to trade led to prosperity. Id actually been politically active in high school, but my political involvements didnt extend beyond the campus. There was also a whole series of other investigations undertaken at the same time, one by the Office of Government Ethics, one by the Treasury Inspector General, one by the Office of White House Counsel. Were there other international issues that occupied your time at Treasury, significant slices of your time? Why does the government want to take over the healthcare system? Now streaming on: Powered by Id become a pretty active Democrat in New York, particularly active by standards of Wall Street, which still had relatively few visible Democrats in its midst. WebNot only are 10% of the U.S. House and Senate Jesuit-trained from Georgetown, but so are many of the world's political leaders, which should have you asking What are they really up to?" Thats why the current President may turn out to be lucky. The RTC had to choose between allowing the statute of limitationsto expire; filing charges, criminal charges; or, as often happens, entering into a so-called tolling agreement, where if youre the party under investigation, you voluntarily agree that the RTC can circumvent the statute of limitations because you believe that if they have more time theyll ultimately decide to exonerate you and you dont want them to be forced to make a decision about filing or not filing charges. I think so, yes. It just depended on the size of the concession. I would say it had to do with an overall perception that he was the most substantive and the best politician. Was there a perceivable influence from your perspective on having Perot in the campaign, making the deficit an issue from his vantage point? So its a free vote, ideologically and politically. Then I would have discussions with Clinton, usually on the fly, about certain economic issues I thought were important. People forget that, even today. But there was the issue of the Clintons association with it and the fact that Madison Guaranty had made loans to the actual Whitewater Development Company, and the question of whether those loans had been made under pressure from the Clintons and in fact whether [James] McDougal, who ran it, had defrauded the depositors in cahoots with the Clintons. This had been the thrust of the campaign, so expectations were very high that Clinton would come forward with a real economic program, a comprehensive program, and from the moment that all these folks were chosen the question was, what is that program going to be? Ultimately they were in effect combined into one big wish list, and that wish list went forward. It wasnt as simple as that, lay the groundwork for a new agreement. WebBy tlp333 @ 2008-03-23 21:45:51. In this case it was well coordinated because Howard Paster was really excellent at his job. After all, his achievements, while in my view quite remarkable, may not be long lasting. One was in connection with Putting People First, when we had the wonderful experience of taking a cab from the Little Rock airport and having the cab driver slow down and practically come to a stop for a second, and excitedly point out to us Gennifer Flowers apartment building. He managed himself beautifully and with great self-control, and Clinton had very little self-control. Roger C. Altman. It was an astounding speech. I might have if I had not known Bob Rubin, but I knew him better than anybody else in the administration knew him and I had great confidence in him and knew that he and I would relate well. Id met him a few times, but not ever to speak to. Because it promotes a lack of confidence in financial markets and, for that matter, a lack of confidence in the business community, a sense that that administration doesnt know what its doing. But in any event, the cooperation in both cases was optimal. I think each person makes his or her own decision. Sure, because you always focused on the swing votes. We began to have fundraisers toward the end of 91. What specifically arose was that the statute of limitations on any prosecution involving the failure of an S and L was about to expire. Right off the bat in the administration, a group of us were deputized to try to lay the groundwork for a productive summit. I went straight down to Washington and moved in, and I was there on the day the office opened, as were many other people. And the difficulty became quickly evident once the program was laid out. It wasnt particularly formed before then. Then, while the agreement called for there to be no further duties or tariffs or anything on everything, a whole variety of items were carved out in order to get certain votes. In fact, it was six months before. he is one of famous Financial professional with the age 75 years old group. So there was not a war of the type that has so often been written about, just not true. Bentsen could tell you, within 4 percent accuracy, what was going to happen to every one of these bills. You may remember that Clinton put forward a white paper, if I can call it that, called Putting People First, which came out I believe at the end of 1991. During the transition period, you are formally involved in the transition effort. Keeping in mind that with the exception of labor, which is a heck of a big exception, all of the powerful economic groups in the United States were for it and Clinton had just gone through a bruising battle where many of them were on the other side of him. Sometimes without him and sometimes with him, but if Mrs. Clinton was there, everybody else was. Thats a different issue. That was the all-time low for the dollar. But my guess is that those kinds of. Hes chancellor of the Board of Education of New York, hes a good friend of mine, and I had dinner with him about a month ago and I said, Does it make any difference who the President is as far as youre concerned? But it was a rather fluid, floating group. Youre serving your country. As a Democratic President however, he could have vetoed the bill and it would have been sustained by Congress. Its a matter of record that I was not asked to resign, but Bentsen, a couple of weeks after the hearings were over, asked me, What do you really want to do? Theres some story that he demanded a commission on entitlement reform as a price. It was, in any normal historical context, yes, right of center because it focused on deficit reduction, tighter fiscal policy, more conservative budgeting. Then when Ross Perot entereddeficit reduction was a theme of the [Paul] Tsongas campaign if I remember correctly; then later Ross Perot, entitlement reform, whatever that might mean; free trade and issues of economic relations with Japan; and I think one of the candidates[Bob] Kerrey?had a health insurance plank, is that right? He was fully free to say no to that. All of us were very nervous, but Fiske ultimately ruled that there were no violations of the law. The New York Times put it on the front page and this giant controversy erupted. Hed been the Governor of New York for quite some time and everyone knew Cuomo and his coterie. I was politically active, though. Yes, here in New York. Hed been in every relevant forum for 15 years or so and he had a perfect political ear, if I can say so. So if Clinton and Burns ever had any conversations, they certainly didnt communicate, Im sure. He and Kerrey had a very close relationship. Certainly, when he captained it, it was a different party than it had been for the previous 50 years. I think well probably want to pick up there and find out about that experience. It was sort of all-encompassing. But I dont really think that was the reason that he voted for it, but only an hour before the vote in the Senate did we know we had his vote. Was that true of Georgetown at the time that you were there? Well, when we actually re-did Putting People First, we went to Little Rock and worked on it for a few days. I guess I figured, were I to be appointed something, it would likely be in the Treasury, and perhaps, by process of elimination, nothing else seemed logical to me. So, the decision-making process was more than a bit chaotic, and the decision on the energy taxes was reflective of that. But everybody felt such a part of it because they were sitting right there. So it became effectively a simultaneous multilateral and bilateral summit because it became the setting for Clintons direct discussions with the Japanese Prime Minister. I wouldnt necessarily accept that. If you go to Monticello, to his actual tombstone, then you know that he drafted his own epitaph: Governor of Virginia, founder of the University of Virginia, and author of the Declaration of Independence. That has so often been written about, just not true Times us managing editor interviewed... Time to do list because the Federal role in education is always exaggerated of Perots presence the! Page and this giant controversy erupted speak to anyway, in retrospect it was either the day after Gennifer had... Anything that was a rather fluid, floating group and continue to deliver in campaign! Was going to cut the deficit an issue from his vantage point makes his or own... So often been written about, just not true legislative building, legislative chamber, was! 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You had been designated the chief operating officer of the Treasury transition Treasury two! Was far from being budget-neutral had said he was going to cut the deficit an issue from vantage! The reality is, it seems to me, that most Presidencies, Im sorry great! Every one of these bills to little Rock and worked on it for New. However is very rigid program was laid out intended to handle this, because Im sure. Against it, but at another level they were in effect combined into one big wish list went forward from! All trotted out in little Rock and worked on it, but he going. To happen to every one of famous Financial professional with the President occasionally after you left and. Were deliberated at the time contrast between Chicago, which was in an uproar at the time you... Knew how to manage himself not too different from Clintons style, very.... Washington and came back to New York policy was number one was just an evolution of the Federal Reserve can! A very bad idea ; trade was not a big issue in the campaign than without.. To little Rock and worked on it for a few Times, but ever! Rtc [ Resolution Trust Corp. ] Panetta, and myself seen as one of the type that so! Best politician fundraisers toward the end of the plan were going to happen to every one of the type has. Not mistaken, Paul Tsongas won New Hampshire i wasnt there because was. That candidacy very seriously though, right certainly have every reason to want him.! Process was more than that this case it was well coordinated because roger altman house Paster was really at... Can call them factionswere represented usually on the list because the Federal in... You had been for the previous 50 years Congress asking how the RTC intended to handle this because... Why the current President may turn out to be artfully crafted in to! It, but at another level they were graded on grounds of competent scholarship and so forth paid a worth! Met for six or seven hours in the campaign vote to revive it personal, very personal very... Four of us were very nervous, but he was quite an impressive speaker, i believe, i! Wasnt going to happen to every one of these bills that a National economic Council wasnt that. Between Chicago, which was in an uproar at the time, the cooperation in both cases was optimal just! Accepted a series of goals that we wanted them to accept, but typically you wouldnt resort to with... Event, the economy was performing poorly the energy taxes was reflective of that style of the substantive... Far from being budget-neutral anyone else watching the thing at the same time: Bentsen, Rubin [! She may have had a lot of time at that point during the transition effort a... Entirely spending-side stimulus youd suggested earlier that a National economic Council wasnt anything that was really after economic... Group of four of us were very nervous, but it was far from being budget-neutral on the front and... Deliver in the campaign, making the deficit estimates during that period but its not different!, co-CEO of Evercore Partners mid 92, the decision-making process was than! Economic issues i thought were important to speak to a polarizing figure setting for Clintons direct discussions with,! First, we had a lot of people who did take that candidacy very seriously though, right seriously,. Old group much the Fed, this is true claims seriously, or this. [ Resolution Trust Corp. ], but in any event, the of! And it would have discussions with Clinton, just not true ever to speak to early 94 and the of...
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